under shock

Some hours later …
I happen to read about the latest ongoings after a bhikkhuni ordination took place in australia, with help of ajahn brahm and ajahn sujato.
I came to read ajahn sujatos blog, here is the link:

Ajahn brahm has been expelled from Wat pah pong for enabelling bhikkhuni ordination and the english branch of wat pah pong under ajahn sumedho has reacted in a blameworthy manner, well, and not to speak about the reaction of many thai ajahns at and related to wat pah pong, they were the initiators of the campain against ajahn brahm.

It was a sad day for the Buddhist world. A sad day. The Dhamma was mistreated. The women blamed.
The doors to development of a pure, openminded and modern buddhism in the west has been closed.

I’m not sure yet what to do. We do not belong to wat pah pong and the ajahn chah sangha.
Our ajahn is open to bhikkhuni ordination, although he cannot dare to openly promote it.
I feel like leaving thailand, disrobing and find a cave or a hut somewhere where i can practice true buddhism without getting involved with any monastics who are trampeling the lord Buddhas teaching with their feet.
I will wait for ajahn to come back to see his reaktion on all this.

If anyone who reads this knows a cave or a hut where i could stay and try to survive by going on almsround and teaching meditation, do not hesitate, let me know.

Ahh, no! Cave sounds great for a from-the-world-misunderstood little silly nun but is not suitable for a woman according to the Buddha. A hut then. or another place with door and lock.

I could ordain as katholic nun instead, they at least try to be open. :o)
And many of the dhammatalks for the lay i have the chance to hear are the same, if you do evil you go to hell, if you do good, you go to heaven.
No, i’m kidding!
at this center are no Dhammatalks, at least not for the foreigners unless i give one and mine are short and about meditation and mindfulness.
Yes, polemic.
The Dhammatalks given here for the laity in thai are quite profound – from what i’m translated.

I should close the door to my room again, through away my mobile and practice meditation until i can proof that a lay person who becomes an arahant dies within one day or seven days after attaining nibbana. King milinda asked about that … And here in thailand is said 7 days after becoming an arahant one will die if one is not fully ordained.
My bet is: ‘I’ will die the very same day. And if the body is still alive or not is not so very important anymore then.
This is not the reason why i feel i need to be a bhikkhuni, i don’t fear death so much, sickness and old age are much more inconvenient.
Dying is just one moment in a process of arising and ceasing of many diffrent processing sensations. But living … Well, as said earlier, ‘there is suffering’. And altough it is understood, it still is.
november 1st was a sad day for buddhists, for women, for the pure and genuine Dhamma.
may the ajahns of wat pah pong who created this shism in the sangha by chasing out ajahn brahm be reborn in thailand as women with the aspiration to live the holy life. and may the australien new independent sangha be growing in harmony.



  1. Dear Phalanyani,I think what is forgotten in this discussion is that many Asian monks are very conservative, if not to say backward, in their views to an extent we even can't imagine. For example they take the whole Tipitaka literally and actually believe everything that's in there, like Mount Meru, peta-ghosts flying through the air, devas, the different planes of existence, in short, they take the whole cosmology as actually true. And who is on top, right after the Buddha and the enlightened ones? Right, Buddhist monks, of course. Even the commentaries and sub-commentaries are regarded as true word by word. Did you ever notice the difference in the prescribed and actual size of the robes? It is because the commentary on a sutta says that the Buddha was about 4 or 8 meters tall. Many Asian Monks take that for real! That's also the reason why monks can use any bed, because a "high and luxurious bed" would be about a meter high. You can't expect people with such a mindset to accept the ordination of nuns. Things will change over time, but until then Bhikkunis will be accepted mostly in the West – where there is support for them – and there will be great ones, there will be famous teachers and meditators among them. And the East will change too. This is just a beginning. So, chin up, this has got nothing to do with your practice. Don't get me wrong, I deeply respect and honour the Sangha, it is an incomparable jewel in this world. It's just this point about Bhikkunis where Asian Theravada and, as far as I can see, the Tibetans also, is hopelessly, and shamefully, backward, reminds me of Afghanistan. I predict that the re-emergence of the Bhikkhuni Sangha is one of the great things that happened when Buddhism came to the West.Manfred, from Germany

  2. What do the female 'monks'/ nuns achieve as religious people/ renunciates that they cannot achieve as 10 precept nuns? More pride, thats what! The whole controversy is caused by desire for recognition – tanha – that will hinder the inner purification of the female searches themselves. Let us forget the 'outer' 'social' discussion / controversy, and focus on the core. Its about women and their search for 'inner' freedom – for good. What does ordination give them that 10 precepts do not? Does the ordination make/give them more virtuous (sila)? more concentrated (samadhi)? more wise (panna)?The cart before the horse, I think, and I am a female trying to perfect my own 8 precepts before trying to take on more than I can genuinely achive. Its very very sad situation, especially as it has made even a venerable such as Ajahn Brahm act in an unthinkable secretive way. That I think is the terrible, great, tragedy. I hope the final, later, fall out from this will not be that one final day Ajahm Brahm will – turn against the decision he made in some drastic way himself. But I fear that will happen, way in to the future, once the dust has settled and he reflects back. Or he will give up the world speaker life and become a heremetic meditator, which would be very good for him, and finally for the Buddhist world; as he would then, I hope, reach much further in his own practice…

  3. Have you seen this? Pass it on to others who may want to sign it :)http://new.ipetitions.com/petition/bhikkhuni-ordination/You can remain anonymous online if you want, meaning not show your name.

  4. Comment with respect:(our perspective only,not to be conclusive)Actually, there would be no problem at all with this ordination and Ajahn Brahm would not be expelled from the WPP tradition, IF… Ajahn Brahm & the Bikkunis Monastry invited the senior monks from WPP to this formal ordination(or at least informed them of this occassion prior to ordination)! Both these Aussie theravada monastries had bypassed WPP (their lineage & school)but chose to get approval from Australian Buddhist community.A big mistake that could have been avoided.It is sad..that this occurred to our beloved Ajahn.It shocked us all.It should have been left at it is (like a calm river who had to pass many obstacles in its flow) and let change takes its own course rather than we try to change things to fit us.A painful lesson.

  5. I agree with Anonymous. Shame on the 4 Bikkunis. See what you gals have caused to a good sincere compassionate – hearted Ajahn Brahm.We lay Buddhists are very annoyed with them for causing a schism in the tradition. (No wonder some speculated that the Dhamma will diminish with the emergence of Bikkunis – some of the Bikkus fear for the future & faith of the Dhamma).Could that be the reason for the Thai theravada tradition not to ordain Bikkunis? Looks like it is happening, so the Thai Theravada traditions were right.These Bikkunis are crazy for power and recognition and turn monastic lives into parliaments.Without ordination,one can also practise >10/337 precepts if you are so passionate to liberate.No need all these formalities and to be told what to do virteously or publicily.Irreversible now..worse still where is Ajahn Brahm going from here? Ajahn is a good monk who tried to accommodate everyone, including the Bikkunis with his unconditional love & mega metta.May he attain Nibbana!He is better left alone in the forest for his self liberation. We love you, Ajahn Brahm no matter what happens, it is not your fault.It was out of your mega compassion that you acted this way albeit cross some lines (your sincerity counts).Mega Metta Bless You.

  6. This is a personal diary and not a platform to discuss sangha internals [of a sangha i'm not even a member.]Please, do not generate any more unwholesomeness by clinging on views and accusing others in anger.Please understand that i'm not going to comment any further on this topic, but of course will continue my diary.May all of you who shared an opinion here be peaceful at heart.

  7. AJAHN BRAHM IS JUST DOING HIS JOB OF SUPPORTING THE GROWTH OF THE DHARMA AND FOR IT TO GROW WITHOUT ANYMORE DISCRIMINATION THERE MUST BE WOMEN REPRESENTED. WHAT THESE FOUR NUNS HAVE DONE IS ALL HEROIC AND IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE DHARMA THEY SHOULD BE SUPPORTED AND CONGRATUALED FOR THEIR BRAVERY AND FOR PAVING THE WAY FOR OTHER WOMEN TO OPENLY BE INVOLVED IN DHARMA.DONT GO AND HIDE IN A CAVE SENSIBLE NUN GET FULLY ORDAINED OPENLY AND BRAVELY LIKE THESE OTHERSTHE DALAI LAMA SAYS:Given that women are fully capable of achieving the ultimate goal of the Buddha’s teachings, in harmony with the spirit of the modern age, the means and opportunity to achieve this goal should be completely accessible to them.The most effective means and opportunity for achieving this goal is full ordination (Upasampada) as a Bhikshuni and full participation in the life of a community of Bhikshunis, that is, a Bhikshuni Sangha in their practice tradition.Full ordination for women will enable women to pursue wholeheartedly their own spiritual development through learning, contemplating, and meditating, and also enhance their capacities to benefit society through research, teaching, counseling, and other activities to help extend the life of the Buddhadharma

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